My company outsources the software development and help desk functions to an offshore team in India. At any given time, at least one of their team members is here in the US on a project. The person visiting us now is the reason this post happened.
Lets call him M. His wife had a baby boy just before he came here. She went to her parents' place for the delivery and is now back with his parents. He has been here for at least 2 months and is going to be here for another month or so. When we were speaking about this just casually, his way of speaking told me she didn't have much choice. Back in India, he lives and works in Bangalore while the wife lives in Chennai with his parents. He goes home every month or so. As far as I can tell, NO compassion for his wife who is living away from him. And no plans to have her come live with him.
At my company's holiday party, he and I were at the same table, along with 6 other people. During the course of conversation, I asked everyone what would they spend money on FIRST if they won a million dollars in lottery. Three of us said "go back to school" (including me), one said "buy a house and settle down", one said "go on a world tour", our COO (Chief Operating Officer) who was sitting with us, said he'd retire because a million bucks would gently push his savings into that zone. This man? He says he will send his parents on a world tour. OK. I can understand that. I would too - if I had money to spare after finishing my studies. But no mention of wifey. It didn't bother me that much at that time.
Just a few minutes ago, he and I were talking and he told me he is looking for a diamond. He said he found one on a website and it is half a carat and being sold for about $1,200. He said he is a bit concerned about spending that much money on an online deal because he will be using up all his savings. I asked him if he will have it set in India (he is talking of buying just a diamond, and not a jewelry item). He said "Yes, I'll give it to my mom and she can do whatever she wants with it". Hello!! Ever thought about that woman who left her parents to come live with yours? Your mom has your dad to provide her with such stuff. Who will do this for your wife?? [Oh, shucks!! I forgot - his son will, won't he?] Or, why not buy TWO smaller diamonds and give one to each? THIS is the stuff joint families are made of and THIS is why (among many, many, many other things) I hate the joint family system so much!!
Is this my husband you are talking about :P No seriously. I dont want to crib at the first instance, but this sounds just like him.eeehheheeww...I wonder kya ghutti pilayi hai in logon ki mom ne inhe? I wish I had an antidote for that
ReplyDeleteSuch people are very common CeeKay. I have seen so many such couples here at work...
ReplyDeleteSadly, the wife seems to be on no one's priority list and she seems to be around only to cook, take care of HIS parents, clean and have babies which only SHE will end up taking care of...
Such people piss me off big time...
I know some people with this attitude and frankly it makes me ill. I would like to think that I have made a dent in shifting this sort of attitude in my male Indian friends through them knowing me. The best comment I ever heard on the matter was "Where do your parents end and where do you begin?" Frankly if it were me in that situation I would be frank and tell my man to nut up and either be a proper husband or sign the paperwork and be a little boy forever. If my daughter ever married such a man I would kill him, but I've raised her to not put up with such crap.
ReplyDeleteI think most Indians are like this. I hate the joint family system for the same reason (amongst many other).
ReplyDeleteThat is one abnormal fellow. I am very saddened - for the wife. But as Pixie said, they're not uncommon. I've seen quite a few such specimens myself.
ReplyDeleteHad I been there, I would have felt compelled to blurt out if he was getting anything for his wife?
It's a different world, isn't it? And here you were, a few weeks ago, doing a post about gifts for the mother after delivery.
I wouldn't have acted as sane as you did. I would asked him right on the face if he feels anything for his wife who married him and is getting this kind of a treatment. I know men from earlier generation used to do this a lot but even now???
ReplyDeleteIts great to acknowledge/admire your mom but this seems to be going way too overboard!
This guy is certainly very extreme...Haven't met anyone quite like that.. But here is my take on it. He gives gifts to his mom because if mom is happy, she will treat wife better and then wife will be happy. As to why he is living alone in bangalore might be financial (saving $$ to buy a house etc).
ReplyDeleteJoint families can be brutal where indivisuality of the younger members is stifled, they do have their advantages..
I have seen scores of people like that. And I FAIL to understand what kind of marriage is that. The women seem to be happy(at least on the outside) to live with their in-laws even though their husbands are living just a couple of hundred miles away. I know of one such girl who was blamed for not producing a baby when the husband visited only once during the month. There is a rule in their in-laws home: you have to wash the bedsheets and wash your hair the morning after you have intercourse. Imagine having to announce the world that you did it (even though it is implicit when you meet only once a month). I feel they are ages away, 19th century people. I just cannot comprehend what is there in a life like that.
ReplyDeleteJeez! This is seriously scary. I'm already a lil anti-marriage when I think of all te compromises one ought to make. And this post kinda reaffirms it. Why do u wanna live with someone who doesn't think of u as priority? Why get married in te first place???
ReplyDeleteomg! He sounds like EXACTLY like my ex!
ReplyDeleteI concur.
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear a point of view from a man. What do they think about their wife? Why marry? Do they think anything at all?
I guess these are the guys who got married because their parents told them to. Bechaari biwi(:
ReplyDeleteThat's such a sad tale. Thank god I was clear from the beginning, from my dating days, that I couldn't live in a joint family. The first couple of years after marriage, my MIL was sooo into her son, and had fed him such a guilt trip all her life, it's like he couldn't be happy in his own happiness, if you know what I mean. It's taken time, patience, quite a few lectures from yours truly and finally our two kids for him to enjoy his own life, regardless of whatever mama may be feeling!
ReplyDeletedon't u just hate such idiots!
ReplyDeleteI agree that his behavior was deplorable and I also feel joint family system wouldn't work for me with my ILs.
ReplyDeleteHowever I did grow up in a joint family - grandparents, dad's brother & family and our family lived (they all still do) in the same house. And I have to say neither my dad nor my uncle behave this way! They are both pretty strong supporters of their wives (to the point where my sis teases them :)) My Grandpa also supports my mom and aunt whenever grandma gets into one of her "moods". So things are not so bad there.
Having said that - an unsupportive/uncaring husband is truly a waste of time for me! I'd rather be alone!
This guy should never have got married.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteThis is indeed a good question.I dont blame the guy for behaving the way he does.If he gets something for his wife and not his mom,the mom will feel bad so to make her feel good,sacrifice the wife.after all, beta hi toh mom ki har khwaish poori karta hai..Its a simple thing but infact,it takes a lot of courage for a man to give his wife her due in front of his parents.I wonder if a woman has to wait for her son to start earning to get her gifts..
NC: I know – I wonder about the ghutti too. But look at the double standards – if a daughter were to care so much for her parents, they’d condemn her. But when the son behaves this way, he is a “good” son!
ReplyDeletePixie: I know, they piss me off too. And educated people at that. Sometimes people who had “love marriages”! I make the distinction because one would expect a person who has married a girl of his choice to pay attention and respect to the girl he married. I used to say to my husband – No one will respect your wife until YOU stand up for her.
Lumi: In my experience, such attitudes CANNOT be changed by example. If you have been able to do so, for more than one man, KUDOS to you! “Where do your parents end and where do you begin?” is a good question but sadly some men will take pride in accepting that they are inseparable from their parents even after getting married. To them that is the ultimate in “culture”. As for you raising your daughter not to put up with such crap – EXACTLY! No one in India raises their daughters NOT to put up with such crap from husbands or in-laws. They actually encourage it in the name of “family values”.
Unmana: Yes, I would think along the same lines too. I have seen some women who complain about their situation in joint families and they are EDUCATED, well capable of standing up for themselves. Heck! Even uneducated women can stand up for themselves. It is just the mind-set I tell you – parents raising their daughters with the bull-sh** idea of tolerating everything in the name of culture and values.
Asha: I guess most women would hate the system. I specially do because I have lived in a dysfunctional one. Joint family system in itself, is not bad. But all parties need to have a level of tolerance and maturity for it to succeed. The usual way of all lording it over the bahu doesn’t work and, in my opinion, is the most common reason for split families and then the bahus gets blamed for tearing the family apart. (You can’t tell that I am bitter about it, can you? :P)
Mummyjaan: Over the years I have learnt two things – 1) I should mind my own effing business and 2) my questions or comments wouldn’t change anything. Hence I keep my mouth shut :D
~NM: Yes, loving, admiring or even worshipping your mom is OK if you would just give your wife the respect and support she deserves. As for asking him what he got for his wife, see my answer to Mummyjaan’s comment above :P
ReplyDeleteDotmom: Oh you haven’t met ANYONE like this? THAT is surprising in itself. But I suppose that is because marathi families are more advanced in giving their DIL’s due respect as far as I know. I get your take on saving for a house etc. but somehow I can’t believe it. And as for advantages of a joint family, I lived in one and bore all the responsibilities but never got a SINGLE benefit. Heck, I had to carry my 8 month old daughter to the bathroom with me on occasions because I couldn’t find someone willing enough to hold her for a few minutes. No advantages only materialize in FUNCTIONAL joint families which are very far and few between. Or maybe it is my cynicism that makes me blind to those.
Anitha: I kind of agree with Unmana that the wives are partly responsible for their state too. Even though I lived in a highly dysfunctional joint family, I was slowly working towards moulding things to being fair to us DILs. Indeed, I needed my husband’s support but I can guarantee that had I been still living there, things would have been VERY different today – would have been much better.
Pointblank: Sometimes, you won’t know if things are that way. Everything will seem rose-colored and peachy on the surface (as it did to me). Only when you get drawn into the core of it (i.e after marriage) does reality slowly reveal itself. BUT I don’t think one should shy away from marriage just for this reason. I had to struggle to gain the respect of my ILs but gain it I did. Every relationship requires hard work. You might have to put up with your friends’ irritating habits to keep the friendship going too, isn’t it? Compromise isn’t necessarily bad. ONE SIDED compromise is. And in a relationship, if you stand up for yourself from day one, you reduce the chances of being trapped in a unhealthy relationship. IMHO.
Broom: LOL!
RJ: Why would men think anything in this regard? They have all their fingers in the pie, don’t they? Get to live with their parents (and be a mama’s boy for life), lord over a wife and earn brownie points with their parents for providing them with such a dutiful and obedient bahu.
Dipali: Exactly!
BEV: Glad it worked out for you. And glad you stuck to your guns and stood up for yourself.
Anonymous: Yup! Though I would prefer to go with the word “dislike” – hate is such a strong emotion and I don’t waste it on idiots! :D
Coffeerocks: The joint family system in your family succeeded ONLY because the wives got proper support from their husbands. I think that is crucial in any family. If your dad and uncles hadn't supported their wives, could they have escaped your grandma's "moods"? Could the family have escaped the bitterness that would have eventually generated?
ReplyDeleteSue: True!
Vaishali: I sincerely hope you were kidding or being sarcastic when you said you don't blame the man for the way he behaves! Seriously, even though I believe the wife should struggle to get the respect due to her (not that she should HAVE to, but she SHOULD if she doesn't get it), I also believe that she can't accomplish much if her husband won't support her in that.
Hi Cee Kay,
ReplyDeleteI am serious when I say that I dont blame the guy.At some point my hubby used to stand up for me(after listening to my lectures for a long time,But then,th in-laws started mis-behaving even more(behind his back) saying that he is a hen-pecked husband.And then if I tell the hubby that this happened,he wont believe me.So I prefer fighting my own battle.And not bother about what he gets his mom or sis.As long as my needs r met,its none of my concern.
Vaishali, for me the exact opposite happened. When my ILs came to know that I tell J about EVERYTHING that happens (not exactly, but that is the impression I gave them :P) their behaviour got better! They still think that my husband is "hen-pecked" and that I have him wrapped around my little finger, but they dare not SAY it :P
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are saying. I believe in fighting my own battles too, and that is why I maintain that DILs should continue to struggle to get the respect they deserve, but sometimes they DO need their husbands' support. But you yourself said "...as long as your needs are being met". Would you still not blame your husband if he left you with his parents in another city while he lived and worked in another? Or would you still let him go easy if he got his mom (or sis) a BIG gift (which in this case is a diamond to be bought with one's WHOLE life's earnings, as that man said to me himself) and got NOTHING for you? Men are not exactly as helpless as they sometimes would have us believe :)
Hi CeeKay,
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the time for responding to my comment.Given the scenario that u have mentioned,I
would feel bad if my husband would leave me at my in-laws place.And I will try to talk it over with him and see what other options do we have.But if he doesnt agree,I will give in.And yes,I will feel bad,if he gets expensive gifts for his mom and not me,but I also know that talking to him about it will only worsen my relationship with him.I have learned from experience that if I support him in anything that he does for his mom/family,he is open to listening to my ideas.Saying NO only makes living together difficult.I would rather have peace of mind than possessions.
Vaishali, it is me who should be thanking you for following up on my replies to your comments :)
ReplyDeleteI agree with you 100% on preferring peace of mind over possessions. And I believe the way you approach it is far more mature than what I would do (namely chew J's head off :P)