A new discovery!

BOYS!!! From what S tells me, the whole sixth grade gang of girls has discovered them. Only as preteen girls of 11 and 12 can :) Some are "going steady" some have "boyfriends" and some, like S, just like a boy from afar. In her own words - "I only LIKE him. It's not like I LOVE him or anything. Or that I cannot live without him". Well, I am glad to see you still have your head on your shoulders honey :P What makes things more interesting is that T, the boy S likes, is "going out" with D who is one of S' good friends. But S claims that it doesn't bother her because she only likes T and doesn't expect him to like her back. Sigh! I never expected that kind of level-headed thinking from any of MY girls!!

This all came out last night when I mentioned in the passing that I had heard a girl we know, "A" (who is in sixth grade as well), had a boyfriend. I was immediately provided with the intricate details of who is going out with whom, who likes whom and who broke up with whom. After that session I could feel my head swimming. There is no way I can keep up with these preteens' busy social lives!

That also brought a question from S. "What would your reaction be if I told you that I have a boyfriend?" I can't say that I wasn't expecting it. Or I should say I was prepared with an answer - only, I was not expecting it this early. I told S I'd be fine with it as long as she doesn't hide it from me and her dad. I also wanted to tell her that if she feels ashamed or nervous about introducing a boy to us, he probably is not boyfriend material but I thought I'd leave that for later discussions. 

I know some of our friends will probably be shocked at the "westernized" way we are bringing our daughter up. Good Indian girls don't have boyfriends. They don't even know about the birds and the bees until they get married :) Okay, so they are not THAT innocent but going by the reaction of a few parents in our group, to mentions of boyfriends and kissing etc. it is clear that, according to them, Indian girls should maintain their "Indian-ness". They should not blindly follow the western culture. Never mind that they are living in the freaking middle of the said culture. And truthfully, I have come across plenty of American moms who are pretty worried about keeping their girls away from boys. One such mom mentioned to me that she doesn't remind her daughter about a friend (who is a boy, of course) whom she grew up with because, FRANKLY, she doesn't want her thinking about boys yet.

Edited to add: On second thought, maybe some of these friends don't exactly think that an Indian girl should not have a boyfriend. Maybe they, like me, think it is too early at 11/12 to think of boyfriends. But I say you cannot stop them from thinking. You can only control your reaction to it and with it, hopefully, still make your kids secure enough to come and confide in you.

Well, I have news for you mom!! If your daughter is a sixth grader, she IS thinking about boys. She was probably thinking about them in fifth grade too. (I had my first crush at the ripe old age of 10!!) Maybe she still has that innocence and isn't thinking of having a boyfriend yet, but the other girls around her ARE thinking and talking about boys so, believe me, your daughter is too. In that case wouldn't it be better to keep the communication channels open and LET your daughter talk (and think out loud) about boys a little? Just so you can provide a little guidance to her at an age when she needs it the most. Now, I think this American mom is pretty cool and is probably already doing all this. (S thinks she is AWESOME!!!!!! - all the exclamation marks and the bold print intended :P) Maybe she just mentioned it to me as the way of expressing an opinion about such young girls dating. But I do see this attitude in many other parents - specially within our Indian circle. NO boys! NO sex! NO drugs! NO alcohol! Well, I do agree that our kids are better off without the latter three. But I am not naive enough to believe that just because I say no, my child will comply. So I make sure that I say no, I explain why and then I also tell her that she can still come to me if she does slip and make a mistake. I tell her it is okay to talk about ANYTHING with me. I show her that she can talk to me about anything by not having a strong negative reaction to something she tells me, no matter how much it shocks me. By making her feel secure that no matter what she says to me, I will not judge her.

One couple is determined to return to India by the time their older child turns 6 or 7 just because "the Western influence spoils the kids here and then they are no longer under your control". I could argue against this point on so many levels! First - Western influence spoils the kids??! For the record, I have seen enough American kids who have their heads screwed on right, and have the right priorities. I have also seen Indian kids born and brought up in America who make the right choices and have some sense. I know that kids in India are not entirely free of the "Western influence". There are as much drugs and sex problems among teens in India as there are here. Second - WHY would you want your kids under your (absolute) control?? [The friend in question mentioned that in India neighbors and relatives can help you keep an eye on the kids and report everything they do, to you. That IS absolute control in my opinion] Your job as a parent should be to teach them the right values, point them in the right direction and let them find their own path. And be there to support them when they stumble or fall. Your job, as a parent, is NOT to MAKE their path for them. Or to be the sentry on that path, keeping a strict eye and preventing them from making any mistakes. In my opinion, mistakes help us grow as a person, but that is neither here nor there and certainly not the point of this post. Third - do they expect their kids to escape all these influences in India??! And do they think they cannot influence their own kids during their formative years here, in America?? Kids look up to us a lot more than they let on, really.

So, to come back to the post, S and I talked about a lot of things.  At one point she told me about a girl in her class who has already been "through FIVE boyfriends!!" I took that opportunity to explain to S that given their age and inexperience in life in general, it IS a good idea not to bind yourself to or to go steady with just one person. If you don't hang out with a number of friends (who are boys), how WILL you know if the boy you like and want to go steady with, IS your kind of boy? 

I also met with her guidance counselor at school to discuss some recent teasing S had been subjected to. When I told him that S had come to me and told me about the teasing his first comment was "You must be doing a great job if your daughter still comes to you to discuss her problems at this age". It hit me then! Maybe my attempts at keeping the communication channels open ARE working! All I need to do now is KEEP them open. 

Easier said than done!

What about you? How do you keep the communication going between yourself and your children? What would your reaction be if your 11 year old daughter came to you and said she likes a boy? Or if your 12 year old son came and told you he likes a girl? What DO you think about middle school kids and dating? I personally think it is too early at 11 or 12 but I also know that my saying so will not deter them. (Having friends of the opposite sex is okay in my eyes) Share your strategies with me. I am new at this "parenting a preteen" gig!!

More thoughts out loud

I wrote a post about a month back, about how I would be disappointed if S decided to go into a non-technical field professionally. It was more about my struggle with my preconceived notions than a comment on a particular field of profession. I got some interesting comments that served to widen my perspective but I got distracted by the Learning Disabilities posts and couldn't reply to these comments in time. So I decided to devote a post to these comments. I am extremely sorry for the delay in replying. Maybe you guys weren't expecting any (given my lax behavior in the past) but not being able to reply to comments always nags on my mind. My replies are in italics.

asaaan said...

I dont really care what she does in school as long she doesnt get married till she is in her(at least) late twenties.
Is that bad of me to want her to not be like me(didnt finish college, married at 20,first child at 22.)

Ohh I didnt know you had to chose electives in middle school. Ashwina will be going to 5th this fall and middle school fall 10.

Me: I don't know about it being bad (of you to want her to be not like you) but I think that isn't actually what you want. All you want is for her to not make the mistakes you made. And I am not saying here that you made mistakes - you do love your life the way it is now, don't you? Maybe you think she should make different choices because the choices you made wouldn't be right for her?

I didn't know about the elective either. This was new for us.

the mad momma said...

i understand. i'd be terribly disappointed if my kids were scienceys. i am very artisitic and you love to know that they share that link with you. would i deal with it? totally. its my prob, not theirs.

Me: Glad to have you on this side then! Yeah - I'd deal with it and not burden them with it.

roop said...

u got urself corrected towards the end. so no brickbats!! :P

u'll make the right decision when it's time. we have full faith in you. :)

Me: Thanks for the vote of confidence Roop :) And thanks for not throwing those brickbats too!

Subhashree said...

Yeah, I wouldn't mind if my kids chose whatever profession they want. But if it is in the same line as the husband and I am in, it'd be easier to guide them. Well, I don't even know if they'd want any guidance, but still I'd like to be prepared.

Me: Yeah - it isn't even about guidance I think. Is it probably the thought that by following in your field they are validating your choice of profession? Though why would I be looking for validation for my choice of profession in my children's actions is beyond me :P I think I am muddled in my mind. Don't really know why I would want her to be a techie. I just would!

dipali said...

What a sensible mother you are, Cee. We just muddled through, I think!

Me: Sensible?? I haven't heard the words "sensible" and "Cee" in the same sentence Dipali. Ever!

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. I agree with tearsanddreams. I think its a very subtle distinction (being disappointed in her because you think its an inferior option and being disappointed because you lose a link to her). The danger is that your daughter may pick up on the disappointment and not on the reasons behind the disappointment, which as I said are very nuanced. And being well-behaved, one danger is that she may be very very subtly pushed into choosing a technology/science career which would make her happy but not terrifically happy.

otoh, I'm sure you've got it all sorted out and its good that you can see those differences and acknowledge them.

And I'm not sure I'd want to guide my daughter in a particular career, but I'd like to guide her about HOW to choose good work that would interest and excite her.

n!

Me: Maybe you are right. But I like to think that the communication between her and me is clear enough for me to be able to make her understand that I will stand by, and fully support, her choice of profession.

lumi said...

Each child is imbued with his or her own set of talents even though they were knit from our DNA. The beauty of education in America is that you can study and be whatever you want to be and don't have to have a predetermined idea of what it is you want to do in school before you get there.

Encourage your daughter to take as many different kinds of classes as possible. Obviously there is a need to have a solid foundation in math, science, and writing. The balance of her courses should be left up to her. There's nothing wrong with being a non-technically oriented professional. If she has a passion and talent to do something it should be cultivated.

Mini-me is a budding environmentalist but has a gifted eye behind the camera, plays the violin with joy, and could out draw me by the time she was five. I'm proud of her for pursuing her interests and talents.

Me: Yes, that is exactly what we did (encourage her to take varied classes). She has elected Arts and Dance as the first and third electives. Technology is second but J or I didn't force her to do that. She liked the content: Graphic designing, publishing, animation etc. We did discuss her reasons for selecting each elective. As for encouraging her non-technical interests - we do that. She plays the violin, loves painting and creating comics, also plays the piano pretty darned well and is taking gymnastics and tennis lessons :) Didn't like being on the swim team so we took her off - no hassles. So she KNOWS we will respect her wishes. By the way, I LOVE the American education system for the reasons you mentioned. I love the flexibility it gives one. I love how you don't get rigidly slotted into a field (arts, commerce or science) the moment you enter 11th grade. I love how you can still go into any field irrespective of the subjects you study in high school. Wish we had that when we were in shcool.

General Note: I never said there was anything wrong with being a non-technically oriented person. I would encourage her in any profession she took up sincerely. I was just talking about my own feelings. I do understand about kids picking up on our unspoken disappointment but I am trying to avoid that with open communication. At least, if she feels I am disappointed about something, she will come and ask me why. I am sure of that. I think! :P

Thinking out loud

Today, while talking to a friend about the electives that S has chosen for middle school, I said something I am sure she didn't understand. We argued briefly over it then gave up and decided to enjoy the rest of the limited time we had to chat with each other. But what I said is still going around in my head and I am sure I won't be at peace until I put it down somewhere. So, here goes....

I said I will be very disappointed if my daughter chooses arts as a career. Yep. I said that. And now I will wait for the brickbats.

While I don't think I owe any explanation to anyone for my opinion on this matter - except to S, I began thinking of my reasons. The only reason I could think of is that I am a technology-oriented and artistically challenged individual. I understand technology better. I understand the career options in technology better. If my daughter chose something that I couldn't understand or help her with... well that IS the heart of the matter, isn't it? We want to be important in our children's lives. We want to be able to "help" them with the major decisions in their lives. And we want a connection with them through our choices in life. My parents wanted me to opt for science because they were both science/engineering teachers and of course, opting for science meant you were intelligent. I don't subscribe to the latter belief myself - I am just saying how it was then.

But what I think does not matter at all. That is what my friend didn't understand. My opinion doesn't count because it is my daughter's life, hence it should be her decision. I strongly believe in parents letting their children make their own decisions. And as I am learning on this road of parenting, sometimes you even have to let your kids make wrong decisions just so they can learn from them. You have to put your confidence in them, in your own parenting. You have to believe that the foundation of values and ethics that you gave them in their childhood is strong enough to help them make sound decisions later in life. You can and should guide them, but you have to leave the final decision up to them. I certainly DO NOT mean that choosing a career in art would be a wrong decision. I am just saying what MY philosophy about parenting is - let your kids make their own decisions, let them make mistakes, and if they do make mistakes then stand by them without judging them and help them learn from their mistakes and rectify them, if possible. That is all we CAN do as parents. I have seen way too many lives ruined by well-meaning parents interfering in their children's decisions.

So while I would very much like it that S goes into a technology or science related field, if she chooses otherwise, I will still wholeheartedly support her. Yes, I'd be disappointed but NOT because I'd think her choice is inferior. Just because as a parent I'd like that extra link with her. And I won't be disappointed in her. I will try and educate myself more about her choices and maybe that will help me understand and accept them better. Maybe I'll grow up a little more by then and her career choice wouldn't affect me at all - one sure can live in hope.

Mother-daughter moments - 1

Ever since my parents left, our mornings haven't been the same. When mom and dad were here, I used to wake up at 7:30, proceed to get ready leisurely, remind S to get ready fast a few times, give her breakfast, pack our lunch bags and leave, sometimes scrambling - by 8:40. We'd get to the bus stop just a few minutes before the bus got there and I'd start off for work as soon as S got on the bus.

Now we get up by 6:30 or 6:45, play with the baby a little if she is up (or catch another shut-eye for a few more minutes - you know how precious those minutes are!), dress her up, wake S, go downstairs, start making breakfast (dosa, omelet or cereal), pack lunch bags, pack M's diaper bag with the milk bottles and so on. M sits on the floor on a comforter all this while, playing with her Teletubby or drums and occasionally raising her arms to whoever is passing by in the hopes of being picked up by them.

By 7:30 S is downstairs, her breakfast ready. I feed M her breakfast (cereal with formula) at the same time so the sisters can eat together. We usually leave home by 8:10, drop M off at the daycare and get to the bus stop by 8:25 or 8:30. S' bus arrives between 8:51 to 8:55. So we have about 25-30 minutes during which we chat with each other or listen to our favorite songs.

I have come to cherish these moments alone with my older one a lot. We are having conversations we never had the time for. And I feel like I am opening the windows into my mind for her, showing her how I think, what kind of a person I am etc.

The first time we spent this time together, I brought up something that had been nagging at me for quite some time. I didn't know how to broach that subject with S but that day it just seemed like the right occasion. About a year ago, S had commented at how her dad's return from office used to be her favorite time of the day when she was 4-5 years old. Why? Because mommy dearest used to take a nap in the afternoon, leaving S to play with her toys in her room. And S, while playing alone, eagerly waited for daddy to return so she wouldn't be alone anymore. Now, that nap was usually 30-40 minutes and it wasn't like I never talked to S or played with her. But I was depressed during those years and running around all day drained me out completely. Besides, she has been comfortable being alone from the beginning and doesn't mind playing/reading by herself. She never hounds me, like some of her friends hound their moms, saying "I am bored, what should I do?" She finds stuff to do by herself. But this statement from her made me look at things in different light. And I felt pangs of guilt. So I brought this up. I asked her if she still remembered the time. She said yes. I asked her if she thought that made me a bad mommy. She said "No" (Thank heavens!!) I told her if she had told me she was lonely at that time, I would never have left her alone like that. And I said sorry to her. I told her I never meant for her to feel like that. I just wasn't aware of how she felt. And that it didn't mean I didn't love her. I loved her with all my might. After that conversation, my heart is more at peace now.

Then there was the occasion two days ago when we discussed about being kind/nice to people even when we don't like them too much. The day before, I had gone to S' school just talk to her class teacher on how she was doing academically and socially. her teacher said she was doing great academically. She is very good at math (ever notice how I can NEVER let go of a chance to boast about it? :P), her writing skills are very good and most impressively, S was the only one to get a question right in an assessment they had taken that very day on reading skills. Socially? "Well, she is doing good socially. Its only that she is kind of impatient with kids she doesn't like. She may be more curt in answering them or when I ask her to help someone out she lets out a sigh if she doesn't like that person too much. She does help them though". This is what I brought up the next day on the bus stop.

I wasn't upset with her. I guess this is a trait she has picked up from me. I am not like that anymore. But I used to be. So I decided to come clean with her, and tell her a few things so that she would have the opportunity to learn from my experiences. This happened back when I had just finished my Master's and was back in Jodhpur with my parents. I landed a job within the first week of being back and started as an instructor with a Computer training institute. Now a little more background is needed in this context.

I did my Master's from Indore, and stayed with my Tauji (dad's elder brother) for three years. My Tauji is married to my mom's elder sister, my mausi. Now, my stay with them was far from pleasant. Lets say, I was put through the wringer, and then some. To the extent that when my brother saw how they treated me, he came home to my mom and said "इसको बादाम खिला कर वापस भेजना, नही तो ये मर जायेगी वहाँ". (Feed her almonds [for strength] before you send her back, otherwise she won't survive). He didn't mean it literally, but things WERE very bad. Another post on that some other time. So these three years at their place gave me a gift that keeps on giving. Depression. I sincerely believe that my bouts with depression began back then. I would often wonder what kind of a person I had become (bitter, clingy, arrogant) and really didn't have a very high opinion of myself as a "nice" person. Anyway, this personality came out more prominently when I would teach. I would scream like a shrew when a student made repeated mistakes. I would mete out harsh, sarcastic remarks if I felt that my students weren't putting in their hundred percent efforts. Once I had them all come back for an extra class THE SAME DAY on a hot summer day because I felt they weren't sincere enough in their studies.

There was a boy in one of my classes who didn't really have any aptitude for computers, let alone for programming. I once got very frustrated with him and I yelled at him. He stopped coming from the very next day. I feel bad about him to this day. I still maintain that he was not ready for a computer course, but I think I should have handled him in a kinder way. I could have just pulled him aside and said "I think you need to work harder or take a break from computer coaching until you are ready for it". I narrated this incident to S and told her how much I regret having used harsh words for him. And how, I wish I could go back and say "sorry" to him for being such a mean person. I told her all this to highlight the fact that sometimes the mean things you say or do come back to haunt you and you can't always set them right then. I asked her how she would feel if someone behaved with her the same way she behaved with some of her classmates. I also asked her to imagine how a person would feel if he or she really liked her (S) but she was mean to him/her. I think I gave her a lot to think about that morning. And I hope she will learn from my experiences, and learn to be patient even with people she doesn't like.

Then this morning, we talked about compassion. S told me about a girl who said "Its UGLY" (and then laughed) for a drawing S made last year in the after-school program. That really hurt S' feelings. I had no idea how much until she told me this morning "I still remember that and I want to be mean back to her just to make her pay". This little girl (she was 5 when she said those words) - Amy- has not been mean to S in any other way except that single time. I didn't want to get all preachy on S and say how "she shouldn't be mean" and all that stuff. After all, I can very well identify with the urge to get back at someone who has hurt me in some way. But it doesn't mean we should act upon those urges. Instead, I told her about this incident:

S was maybe 4 or 5 years old. We were going out one day when the lady, who lived across from us in the apartment complex we lived in at that time, called out and said a sweet "Hello" to us. S turned to me and said, quite loudly, "I don't like her". I was mortified and immediately chastised her not to say such things because they could hurt some one's feelings. Later on we became very good friends with that neighbor, and she was one of S' favorite neighbors. I asked S if she really meant she didn't like Susan when she said that on that day. I said what her 5 year old mind probably meant was "Since I don't know this lady, how can I like her?" And I said, this is probably why Amy said her drawing was ugly. She didn't quite like it, but didn't know the correct words to express how she felt. So she said "ugly".

I also recounted another recent incident to S. Ani, a friend of S' told her that her name (the friend's) means "beautiful" to which S said "which you are not" and laughed because she thought she had cracked a big joke. The friend's feelings were very hurt obviously, and she complained to her mother who happens to be a very good friend of mine. Her mother called me to tell me of this incident, not to complain but to sit down and talk to S about how it hurt Ani's feelings. I did, and S apologized to Ani and they are back to being great friends. I reminded S that even though she had laughed after her "joke" Ani hadn't found it funny and maybe the same thing happened when Amy said S' drawing was ugly. Maybe she thought she had said something funny. S then understood that the same incident could be interpreted in several different ways and I hope she has overcome the urge to return the mean remark.

I cherish these moments with her when she shares whatever has been on her mind and I talk to her, not as a mother, but as any other person who is sharing something from her life to give some parallels to compare with. And I cherish the moments when the two of us simply sit silently in the car listening to our favorite songs. I am sure there will be many more.