S has been having some problems with a friend of hers. Some time ago I would have said they are "good" friends but lately I have been questioning that. The said "friend" (lets call her A) tries to boss S around and when she stands up for herself (a relatively new skill for which I am very proud of her), A gets nasty and says hurtful things to S. She also says hurtful and untrue things about S behind her back to other girls. When S steps back from the friendship A apologizes, is nice for a few days (or hours) and then the cycle repeats. S is also getting tired of this routine. I have been trying my best not to dictate what S should do - or what I think S should do, which is to sever all ties with this girl. One day she is all determined to cut the friendship off when she is smarting from the latest insult A has thrown at her, the next day she is feeling sorry for A because she doesn't have any friends. This girl is so obnoxious that she really doesn't have too many friends. And the girls (and boys) who ARE friends with her are subject to the same treatement and are wary of her. One girl's mother has forbidden all contact between the two girls which is feasible for her since the two girls are not in the same class and are going to be in different middle schools next year.
All this while I have been coaching S in what to say and how to stand up for herself without being nasty in return. Now, I have had friends disagree with me on this but I sincerely believe if S can learn the skills to stand up for herself without being nasty or mean, it would be for her own good. She will need those skills when she goes out in the big bad world - where she will definitely need to work with all sorts of people. A little diplomacy in expressing her feelings will go a long way for S then - that is what I feel. I certainly don't want her to be all nice and sweet in all situations - I just want her to resort to nastiness as a last option. I want her to have a backbone and claws but I also want her to keep her claws sheathed until it is absolutely necessary to go on a full frontal attack.
I have had a good friend also disagree with me on whether I should force S to break her friendship with A. I say no, she says yes and she has already told her daughter not to keep any contact with A. She says, as a mom, it is her responsibility to protect her daughter from such "friends" and to make sure she (the daughter) doesn't unnecessarily go through the heartbreak of being in an abusive friendship. I respect her opinion, and respectfully disagree with her too. I feel these are life's little opportunities for S to learn how to stand up for herself and how to work at creating healthy relationships. ALL relationships need hard work. No relationship can survive if the people involved are not putting in a sincere effort. And, in all healthy relationships, respect flows both ways. It should and if it isn't, I would term that relationship as deficient, if not outright abusive. I also feel S should learn when and how to end a relationship. It is a hard thing to learn. I haven't been able to do that yet. I sometimes wonder if it is unreasonable of me to expect a 10 year old to learn what I haven't been able to, in 38+ years. But I believe by giving her an early start, and full understanding and support, I am giving her the chance I never got at learning this.
There is no point behind this post of mine. I am just trying to sort my thoughts on this. A's mom has become a good friend and has helped me a lot on many occasions. I have thought about talking to her about A's behavior towards S but have decided against it for a few reasons.
1. I am a complete chicken.
2. I want S to resolve this on her own, one way or the other. I do not want to step in because I see her learning to deal with such sticky situations herself and I also see her confidence growing.
3. How do you go to a good friend and say "I am sorry but your daughter is obnoxious!!"?
MY concern is how to let S distance herself from A without distancing myself from A's mom? Why am I worried about this friendship? Because I have learnt that children may fight like cats and dogs one day but get along fabulously on another day. And that children grow and change. So I hope A will change a little, or that S will learn how to maintain this friendship without getting bulldozed by A. I do admire many qualities of A's and do feel that both girls can benefit from each other. Also, I believe it is easier to break a relationship than to keep it going and super-difficult to mend it after breaking it. So one should break a relationship if, and only if, one is a 110% sure about doing it.
I have had some friendships that have taken a long time in developing and some are still a little shaky. But I still keep giving them "some more time". Not because I am an undecisive fool, but because I believe a beautiful, life-long friendship could emerge out of these relationships if they get enough time and effort. But I am also strong enough now to not let these relationships hurt me if they don't go the right way. I think I am capable of breaking ties if someone seriously hurts me. In fact, I think I always keep a thin shell aorund me to protect myself from any potential hurts. Just prior experience which resulted into this habit.
One thing that I have noticed is lack of respect in some friendships. Even in adult friendships. People take their friends for granted. Expect favors, but don't return them. Are rude because they CAN. Or under the guise of being their friend's well-wisher. The biggest issue I have seen is lack of appreciation. If someone does something for you, you just shrug it off saying "Oh, I would have done the same thing for him/her".
My father's death has made me take a deeper look within myself for many reasons. One of the reasons was HIS friendships and relationshsips. He, and my mom, have a huge social circle. Pa used to remember everyone's anniversaries, birthdays and other small things like their kids' likes and dislikes. He would email or call people on every little occasion. He was our link to the rest of the family. And because of him, we had so much support after he was gone. In the days after his funeral, I and my brother were surrounded by at least 12 first cousins. They were there because Pa kept everyone in our lives. Ma has played a part in all this too - all my life I have seen my parents house some kid or other while they study in some college/school in Jodhpur. Ma loved feeding people. If friends visited us at lunch or dinner time, they were treated to a sumptuous meal - no matter how last minute their arrival was. Together, Ma and Pa have built such a strong support-net for us. I hope I can leave a similar net for my kids one day. And I believe the first step to that is respecting my friends for what they do for me, and how they love and care for me. At the same time I will remember that I deserve the same respect from them and if I don't get it then maybe it is time to trim that part of my friendship tree.
hi Cee,
ReplyDeleteNo real advice. Just that I understand what you are trying to say. We all struggle with "how can I be an involved parent without taking over my kid's life"? question.
in your daughter's situation though I would worry about two things:
1. That she is holding back on ending the friendship because she wants your approval for the severing of ties and it may seem as though you don't want her to end the friendship
2. That she does not become "guilty by association". In other words, hanging out with this obnoxious kid should not mean being ostrasized by other "normal" kids - jus because she is percieved to be the friend of the obnoxious one.
I don't kow what to say really. I'd probably just keep the communication channels open, and if your daughter talks about this - just kind of run a couple of scenarios by her - you know "end the relationship", "cut down contact time", or just simply "whatever you do, I'm standing behind your decision".
I guess that's all we can ever do. Its hard to watch our little one's get their hard knocks isnt it ?
priya.
Priya, thanks for the input! As for the two points you made, regarding no. 1, she already knows how I feel. I have told her I would like to see her limit her friendship with A but I will not force her either way. My main aim is to help her make the decision herself and she does know I support her completely. She comes and discusses A''s behavior almost every day and gets my opinion on how she reacted etc. I do agree abotu keeping the communication open and am trying to do so.
ReplyDeleteAs for no. 2, I have been there so I know how painful that is - being ostrasized just for being friends with someone. Thankfully S hasn't had that problem - she gets along well with mostly all kids. And other kids tired of A's obnoxious behavior often rant to her. This is why I feel S would be justified in severinglimiting her friendship with A - because I am certain it isn't S' behavior that is causing problems here. I am not the kind of parent to assume just blindly that my child can neer be at fault so I always take such things with a grain of salt and reserve judgment until I am completely sure what S' role in the situation has been.
Oh Cee .. I have no advice ... but these posts just are giving me a look into the future. Similar situations might arise in our household too ...
ReplyDeleteAs long S is sure she is supported in her decision, your silence in the situation I think is the right thing to do.
Cantaloupe shares her experiences with her friends with me ... some of the comments are nasty as I wrote in my earlier post "http://cutecantaloupe.blogspot.com/2008/11/everyday-lessons.html"
I hope I am teaching her the right attitude.
Man ... parenting brings in challenges all the time!!
I loved the post, and the last paragraph especially.
ReplyDeleteNo inputs to give, unfortunately(:
Hi Ceekay,
ReplyDeletejust a thought - it's possible that A is giving a cry for attention...prolly from something going on in her life...!
but seeing that you know her mom well, you might know...
you're right that as a parent you can guide and support her decision, but can't make it for her!
I hope things resolve one way or another between S and A...!
I went through a similar situation with my daughter a few months back, but since the other girl went to another school, it was easier to distance her from the other. We are good friends with the parents and I told the mom that the girls needed some time apart as they were constantly fighting, so no playdates for a few months. It did help and they are getting along better now. I feel that kids go through "mean streaks" at times and given time outgrow it.
ReplyDeleteWe have a character building initiative in my daughter's school and one of the books we read to the kids discussed the same situation. It is considered a form of bullying, and the best action is to distance yourself from the "bully". This book may help http://www.amazon.com/My-Secret-Bully-Trudy-Ludwig/dp/1582461597.
Sorry for the long comment.
Veena
Sorry for being late to the party!
ReplyDeleteI think your approach has been right on the mark. As parent's of children (girls especially) we have to teach them to find their voice and stand up for themselves. She's talking about it with you and that's a great thing. You can't make the choice for her to be friends with the girl or not, but you can have the discussions with her about what true friendships are all about.
I really wouldn't raise the issue with the girl's mom, it will only create tension from multiple angles. You can't parent other people's children. I'm quite certain that the mom IS aware of how the girl is towards other kids.
We had a similar situation a few years ago regarding two friends of Mini Me where one was bullying the other and a nasty note was written. I just said "True friends don't do things like that. It's okay to disagree sometimes but you still have to respect each other and that is not respect." She decided on her own that she would be polite when seeing the culprit in school but that the culprit would no longer be invited to outside of school activities. Perhaps asking S why she still wants to be friends with A and getting her to write it down might be insightful.
Great post as usual Cee. I repeat what I have said before - you should really author a book on 'sensible parenting'.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you - its better they learn to deal with these things now.
I think this will make kids learn how to handle these situations, although its tough fo the time being. I know its distressing and confusing for us as parents. I sometimes feel that our parents were relatively oblivious and unconcerned when we went through similar situations, guess parenting got tougher these days.
ReplyDeleteSory, not much advice, but I am certain she can handle it well.
Cee Kay, I've been dealing with a similar situation for some years now. Our closest friend's daughter K is Raina's best friend and has been since they were babies. It may seem unbelievable, but K has been a super obnoxious brat right from the time she could snatch Raina's toys away from her, NOT to play with them herself, but just to take them away from Raina. She's bossy, rude and downright mean if Raina tries to stand up for herself and express an opinion. She never wants to listen when Raina has something to tell her, but always expects her to listen. From early on, both my husband and I have told Raina to stand up for herself. It's very hard to stand by and watch your child's feelings be trampled upon even if it's by a kid the same age. And sometimes I've felt compelled to interfere, especially when Raina's broken down to tears again and again. K's parents try to teach her to be nicer, but K just throws a tantrum, is nice for a few hours or days, and then it's back to square one.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, am not writing this to offer advice, just to let you know that I'm floating the same boat. I do want her to learn to stand up for herself, but she's just 4 and very tender-hearted. What's the right age to deal with this anyway?
What I'm glad about is that when Raina starts kindergarten next year, she'll automatically see less of K, and hopefully, the "friendship" will become less close. Good luck to you with S!
i always learn something new on this blog, don't i!! wow, parenting is going to be a task and a half and you're so so good at it.
ReplyDeletei do wonder though that however number of posts i've seen written are from people whose kids are being bullied ... i've never seen anyone whose kids bully write. any reason?
CA: I think you ARE teaching her the right things. How old is she? I am sorry I don't remember. i started teaching S to stand up for herself when she was about 6 years old. I should have started earlier is what I sometimes feel.
ReplyDeleteDipali: Thanks!!
GND: A's mom knows how A behaves. And she does nothing to stop it. In fact I think she is a passive enabler. She once called me to let me know how S had hurt A's feelings by saying something as a joke. I told S to apologize and she did but I thought at that time, and still do, that she shouldn't have stepped in. Instead, she could have taught A how to deal with it on her own - like coming up to S and saying she had hurt her feelings. Anyhoo - matter for an entirely different post :P
Veena: Never apologize for long comments! I LOVE them!! I like the character building idea. I will get the book you have mentioned and read it. I'll see if S' school has something similar. If not, then maybe I can suggest it. It is difficult for S to get a break form this girl - they are both in the same class and will be going to the same middle school next year. Besides, I didn't want to separate S from A because I feel she SHOULD learn how to deal with such people. She is going to be meeting/working with such people all her life, after all.And she IS old enough to learn how to. I have used the separation tactic in the past when S was younger. It does work but now I think it is time for me to do away with it :D I have, though, limited the amount of time these girls spend with each other outside of school.
Lumi: The party here never ends so you can never be late :D I agree with everything you say! We should have been neighbors.
ReplyDeleteChox: You are giving me ideas now :D If I write a book, you will be REQUIRED to buy it. OK? :P
Trying2beperfectmom: That is exactly how I view such situations - as opportunities to teach S social interaction skills!
A Muser: At 4 I feel the parents SHOULD step in if their child is having a hard time dealing with a friend. I wish I had. When S was 4 I was too chicken to discipline someone else's kids. Now I am not. "I WILL correct your child if you don't" is my attitude now. So hopefully M will grow up more assertive than S.
Roop: I think if my kid were the bully I wouldn't be writing about it either. Because either I would be too ashamed to write about it or I would be proud of it and therefore it wouldn't be a "problem" for me. Right? :D
There are so many times I think about why I had such an amazing group of friends growing up, and never felt jealousy or other -ve feeling toward them...(and it was totally reciprocated too)...
ReplyDeleteYes, we used to have conflicts/arguments and stuff, but we had a Great bond!
It's such a shame I haven't kept in touch with them!
After reading this post, I've been thinking about them a lot, and should figure out a way to get back in touch with them!!
Hi again,
ReplyDeleteHere's some information on the PTA initiative that I mentioned earlier
http://www.projectcornerstone.org/html/schools/index.htm
Veena
Awarded !
ReplyDeleteHey Ceekay
ReplyDeleteI've been following your blog for some time but didn't find time to comment earlier.
I was in a similar situation to S from the 1st to 5th standard - only difference was I had only one friend who used to behave exactly like A - she was nice for some time, then would make some snide comment either to me or behind my back. Worse still- her mom was always putting me down. My mom didn't do anything much about it in terms of speaking to my friend/or her mom - but concentrated on helping me get some other hobbies- sports, danceing etc and also concentrate on my studies- all this gave me a lot of confidence- i started doing well in school in studies and also took part in sports actitivities and all cultural activites- so i was quite busy in that, and since i was more confident i made many new friends. So suddenly from 5th standard having only friend, in 6th standard i had a lot of friends. My mom was concerned though- she tells me now that in one PTA meeting in 6th she asked the teacher whether i was lonely in school and the teacher told her that I was quite happy and in fact my old friend was finding it dificut to make friends
That said, i am still fridnely with my old friend even now,and I guess she has also grown out of this habit of putting down people. Just a question- is A the only child- sometimes this happens if people pamper their children too much. Hope this helps!
hey all okay? havent seen you around in a while..
ReplyDeleteHey Cee Kay! Whither art thou?
ReplyDeletelong time ? hope everything is ok...
ReplyDeleteNo new posts yet, CeeKay?
ReplyDeleteEveryone whow asked after me: Thanks so much!! I am very sorry for my rude behavior - for not replying right away. I deeply appreciate your concern.
ReplyDelete